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I'm now all done with Bruce Lee...


shukocarl1441996347

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ShawAngela
2 hours ago, CharlieParker said:

 Bruce has already set up Concorde at this point

Bruce Lee had a production company ? Which movies did he produce, then ?

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sifu iron perm
11 minutes ago, ShawAngela said:

Bruce Lee had a production company ? Which movies did he produce, then ?

Joint venture with Raymond. 

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KUNG FU BOB
11 hours ago, Scottfu said:

This is stupid...so stop following a guy because he is flawed?  I hate to tell you that your neighbors have dirty secrets, your local cops do, sports heros, almost every politician from all sides...etc etc...you probably do too if your honest. Drugs were huge in the 70s...like candy...he got hooked big deal.  You might as well cut a good chunk of the human population out of your life while your at it.  People are very flawed. Its not like he was hanging out at the local elementary school dealing. Some of you sound very naive about the world. 

@Scottfu please don't be rude. "This is stupid" is your opinion about another person's opinion and it is disrespectful. Please communicate with others as you'd like to be communicated to (at the very least, on this forum). Opinions are best heard if they are presented without insults.

 

5 hours ago, CharlieParker said:

So what now? Do we disassociate ourselves from everyone who ever drank or smoked?

It's all about perspective and looking at the bigger picture - Bruce's alleged crimes aren't as bad as you think - unless you're someone who thinks the 'war on drugs' has been a roaring success over the last 30 years.

Some people do disassociate themselves from people that engage in certain behaviors, and that's everyone's prerogative. Keep in mind- @shukocarl1441996347 didn't start a thread saying that all Bruce Lee fans should feel the way he does, he only stated how he feels about the situation. Whether or not the "war on drugs" has been a success or not has nothing to do with an individual's feelings on someone they respected and admired turning out to be... not who they thought they were.

We only have our perspective- one created by the experience and information that we have gathered and formed an opinion about, and that usually only changes when we are open to other perspectives and new information. I remember working with a guy, and one day I noticed he was giving most of the other employees the cold shoulder. I asked him about it and he said "I just found out they're all a bunch of degenerates. So I'm through with them!" He was extremely upset and angry. What kind of sick shit could they all be up to, I wondered. They seemed like decent, normal people. He'd found out that a lot of them pooled money together to buy lottery tickets every week, and his father had been an out-of-control gambler. So for him any kind of gambling, no matter how seemingly innocuous to others, was a vile activity and immediately lowered his opinion of someone. I was young and didn't understand how he could be so judgemental about something that seemed paltry and innocent to me, so I tried to explain that it was no big deal. He then described how he, his sister, and mother would have to cuddle together under all the blankets they owned to try to stay warm as the heat had been turned off- his father losing the money meant to pay the bills. They also often starved when there wasn't any money for food. For him, any gambling was vile. Now I understood.

Anyway, please continue to discuss these matters together, but with kindness and respect. Thanks.

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DragonClaws
22 hours ago, DiP said:

Those letters are controversial in that they reveal more about Bruce's drug habits. Some BL fans out there that look up Bruce thanks to his image and overall legacy are new to this so I can understand the shock. But this fact is something that has been known for years so the letters are nothing surprising. Bruce was doing drugs ever since he was introduced to them by James Coburn, and stayed that way up until his death.

 

Ive got an article from a short lived movie magazine, that detailed some of this but not in such great depth. I got this when I was 17 around 2001.

Edited by DragonClaws
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DragonClaws
18 hours ago, shukocarl1441996347 said:

He turned out to be a hypocritical cunt in my eyes. Philosophy...more like Christmas Cracker jokes...a load of bollocks. He did leave behind a good martial art (his- that is-not Inosanto's) and some decent films and that's it. Stoners will rejoice probably.

 

The estate pushed that part of his image, and made it appear like a much bigger thing in his life. I'd hold back on selling your stuff for a bit, you might end up changing your mind and losing stuff you regret. I was brought up in a time when such stuff was being talked about more openly. Had Bruce Lee lived, then it surely would have gotten out much earlier. Especially as the media started to expose stuf like this in later decades. I think it was only kept back in the West, which could have only been done in the days before the ineternet.

After viewing Death by Misadventure, I kept my mind open to most things/theories.

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shaolin swords

i said this ones and i will say it again regardless of who you are at the end of the day people are people we all have feeling like and hate things and also make mistakes and have flaws nobody is perfect not even bruce lee so dont be shocked when you hear these things about your fav actor or actress we all have flaws and inner demons we got to fight so am not shocked at all at any of this bruce lee was a great martial artists and made some great movie in his life but at the end of the day his just a human being like the rest of us 

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Cognoscente
2 hours ago, DragonClaws said:

The estate pushed that part of his image, and made it appear like a much bigger thing in his life. I'd hold back on selling your stuff for a bit, you might end up changing your mind and losing stuff you regret. I was brought up in a time when such stuff was being talked about more openly. Had Bruce Lee lived, then it surely would have gotten out much earlier. Especially as the media started to expose stuff like this in later decades. I think it was only kept back in the West, which could have only been done in the days before the internet.

After viewing Death by Misadventure, I kept my mind open to most things/theories.

Linda Lee was one Hell of a spin doctor! This makes her first book all the more shocking since she was more than happy to talk about Bruce's flaws if not his most damning ones. What's peculiar is that it took her so long to soften his image by the time that her remake was published. I listed the differences between her 1975 book and her 1989 book here including such omissions as Bruce having a raunchy mind: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bruceleelivestributeforum/viewtopic.php?p=32204#p32204

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starschwar
10 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

One of the reasons why Bruce turned to drug dealing was because Raymond Chow wasn't exactly generous with money. In his final months, Bruce was becoming increasingly aggravated about not receiving his fair share of income in his company Concord. Besides the issue of the box office revenue from The Way of the Dragon, he wasn't exactly given a respectable salary for Enter the Dragon. I get the impression that he was thinking about providing for his children when he became a drug dealer.

 

I appreciate the context.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around that part.  I know Bruce wasn't going to be making Hollywood money - but it was really that bad? 

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Cognoscente

Yeah, even Bruce's older brother Peter mentioned that Bruce wasn't happy about the lack of money from WOTD. This was mentioned in Alex Ben Block's biography where it was also mentioned that Angela Mao was paid a pittance by Golden Harvest.

In Bey Logan's Hong Kong Action Cinema, a producer named Lawrence Wong explained why the Shaws refused to give what Bruce wanted before he joined GH: "At the time, Bruce wanted HK$20,000 to do a film with us. That was too much, because if we paid him, we would then have to upgrade all of our other contract stars accordingly. It would have been too expensive."

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On 9/10/2022 at 7:31 PM, shukocarl1441996347 said:

Look, 48 yrs is a long time to have faith in someone who turned out to be drug dealing fraud. His ex wife is even worse promoting one of the biggest con jobs ever. I've followed Wang Yu all this time too. He was a bad'un at times but he never tried to hide that. If you're up front with things people can make a rational choice to like/dislike you.

Fair enough. I've been a fan of his for nearly 30 years, so I kind of understand how you feel. This is very jarring to learn for me as well, but I was kind of ready for something like this to come out. With the way he died and everything, I knew he had to have had some skeletons deep in his closet. Besides, we are all human and we make mistakes. So I choose to still be a fan, but if you don't, I respect that. 

Oh, and if my original post came across as hostel, I didn't mean for it too. I was recovering from a stomach virus and wasn't really thinking too clearly. So sorry if you took offense. That wasn't my intention. 

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Cognoscente
1 hour ago, DarthKato said:

This is very jarring to learn for me as well, but I was kind of ready for something like this to come out. With the way he died and everything, I knew he had to have had some skeletons deep in his closet.

Speaking of skeletons, it's possible that the reason why Adrian Marshall was no longer Bruce's lawyer by the start of 1973 is because he didn't want to get involved with Bruce's tax scam. The below is taken from Albert Goldman's article about Bruce...

Money occupied the center of Lee's mind in his last days. After a lifetime of barely breaking even, he was determined now that he was famous enough to make—and keep—a fortune. His ideas of finance were pretty crude. Basically, he was concerned with hiding his wealth. He put his $250,000 house in the name of his “butler,” Wu Ngan, so that in the event of a divorce his wife couldn't claim a share in the property.

A more important consideration was how to hide his money from the IRS; for Lee was intent upon returning to Hollywood now that he was a superstar, but he dreaded the thought that the American government would take an enormous bite out of his earnings. When he sought the advice of Werner Wolfen, one of the smartest tax men in Los Angeles, he was told firmly by this expert (who saw Lee as a “street person’’) that he would not participate in any illegal schemes.

Lee left the lawyer's office in high dudgeon. Just before he died, however, Lee sent the tax expert a handwritten note agreeing to follow his advice. This pattern of defying reason and then reversing himself was highly characteristic of Lee. It was the yin and yang of his reckless and impulsive temperament.

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13 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

Speaking of skeletons, it's possible that the reason why Adrian Marshall was no longer Bruce's lawyer by the start of 1973 is because he didn't want to get involved with Bruce's tax scam. The below is taken from Albert Goldman's article about Bruce...

Money occupied the center of Lee's mind in his last days. After a lifetime of barely breaking even, he was determined now that he was famous enough to make—and keep—a fortune. His ideas of finance were pretty crude. Basically, he was concerned with hiding his wealth. He put his $250,000 house in the name of his “butler,” Wu Ngan, so that in the event of a divorce his wife couldn't claim a share in the property.

A more important consideration was how to hide his money from the IRS; for Lee was intent upon returning to Hollywood now that he was a superstar, but he dreaded the thought that the American government would take an enormous bite out of his earnings. When he sought the advice of Werner Wolfen, one of the smartest tax men in Los Angeles, he was told firmly by this expert (who saw Lee as a “street person’’) that he would not participate in any illegal schemes.

Lee left the lawyer's office in high dudgeon. Just before he died, however, Lee sent the tax expert a handwritten note agreeing to follow his advice. This pattern of defying reason and then reversing himself was highly characteristic of Lee. It was the yin and yang of his reckless and impulsive temperament.

Man, Bruce Lee never seemed to me like someone that would be up to stuff like this. He always appeared to be so straight laced. So it’s really gotten me thinking about what some of the other famous MA stars may be up to. 

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On 9/11/2022 at 12:03 PM, CharlieParker said:

So, taking this to a whole new level of conspiracy theories - 

Raymond Chow gets wind of the introduction of the misuse of drugs act that's going to be passed into law in 1973. Before then it was the wild west and Bruce had taken full advantage of his location and his contacts. Chow looks at the penalties - he knows it could destroy Bruce's star status and the money it generates.

And he is also fully aware that Bruce now has his sights on being the "the big boss" of the golden triangle in Asia. Aside from the risks involved, the wealth this could potentially bring Bruce Lee  will destroy Chow's dreams for Golden Harvest film studio. Bruce has already set up Concorde at this point - perhaps in-part from the ill-gotten gains of his drug dealing?

Chow sees only one way out. He must silence the golden goose.

 

 

 

 

There’s a film in here somewhere 😀

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Omni Dragon
19 minutes ago, DarthKato said:

Man, Bruce Lee never seemed to me like someone that would be up to stuff like this. He always appeared to be so straight laced. So it’s really gotten me thinking about what some of the other famous MA stars may be up to. 

Some extraordinary people, seem to have extraordinary problems.

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starschwar
14 minutes ago, sym8 said:

There’s a film in here somewhere 😀

A part of me - a small part that can look past the tragedy of everything known and unknown - wants to see a Bruce Lee version of Fear and Loathing.

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Cognoscente

It's really quite something that Betty Ting Pei's movie about Bruce is the one which comes closest to depicting him as a drug user.

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4 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

It's really quite something that Betty Ting Pei's movie about Bruce is the one which comes closest to depicting him as a drug user.

Are you referring to 1976's "Bruce Lee and I"?

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sifu iron perm

Bruce was a product of his era and surroundings, so no surprise he tried and got hooked on illegal hard drugs (including psychedelic  herbs)..He was on his open mind of exploration and challenging his senses and strengths. The man was a walking science lab and devotion to bringing the world to his fists!

We all see him as a martial artist, actor and superstar first..

 

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dionbrother

ShukoCarl should sell his stuff now if he feels like it.  If you expect to make any money off your Bruuuuuuce collection, now is the time.  Only Baby Boomers and some Gen Xers are willing to throw cash around for Bruce memorabilia and the boomers are dying off.  Millennials don't care about this stuff or Bruce and won't give you a wooden nickel for it.  Most Bruuuuce items will be nearly worthless in a few years.  Cash out while you can and move onto other things.

Besides, Ho Chung Tao and Dragon Lee are said to be much nicer individuals.

 

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Cognoscente
6 hours ago, DarthKato said:

Are you referring to 1976's "Bruce Lee and I"?

Yep. It's intriguing that Linda never went after Betty over that movie like she did over those associated with Super Dragon and Golden Sun.

In the January 1975 issue of Kung Fu Monthly, it was reported that she tried to get Super Dragon banned but failed. This is why she set out to do her own biopic. Betty's "Bruce Lee and I" was released one year later in the same month, January, when Raymond Chow and Linda finally settled their legal dispute about money that was owed to her.

In the previous January, she had sent a letter to Baker where she wrote: "In a couple of weeks, I'll be going to London because my book will be coming out there first. It won't be out here until around May. Then after that, I have to go to Boston to sue some people for making a trashy movie about Bruce's life. It was really disgusting! I went to Hong Kong in November with my lawyer to get some things straightened out and I guess that eventually it will be worked out but it sure takes forever."

The August 1978 issue of Fighting Stars reported how much money that Linda received after suing the people behind Super Dragon and Golden Sun – both Bruce Li movies are called Dragon Dies Hard in different territories. Linda maintained that her late husband’s defining characteristics were used without permission of the estate. The judge ordered that Allied Artists, Hallmark Productions, Esquire Productions and Winthrop Amusements, Inc. make a $25,000 settlement to the estate.

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JCLegend86
12 hours ago, DarthKato said:

Man, Bruce Lee never seemed to me like someone that would be up to stuff like this. He always appeared to be so straight laced. So it’s really gotten me thinking about what some of the other famous MA stars may be up to. 

Most people in general dont have 100% clean sheets. Life is about trial and error, and that is how you learn. It must be one the biggest downsides of being a celebrity, because once you make a mistake your career and life can be severely damaged. Its like people expect these folks to act perfect and inhuman. And people love to boost their own egos by bringing famous people down. Its sad. 

Edited by JCLegend86
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CharlieParker
7 hours ago, dionbrother said:

ShukoCarl should sell his stuff now if he feels like it.  If you expect to make any money off your Bruuuuuuce collection, now is the time.  Only Baby Boomers and some Gen Xers are willing to throw cash around for Bruce memorabilia and the boomers are dying off.  Millennials don't care about this stuff or Bruce and won't give you a wooden nickel for it.  Most Bruuuuce items will be nearly worthless in a few years.  Cash out while you can and move onto other things.

Besides, Ho Chung Tao and Dragon Lee are said to be much nicer individuals.

 

Totally agree - I can't think of any student I've taught in the last 10 years who has even heard of Bruce Lee (I teach teenagers mostly) They have no idea who he is and I have to do the decent thing and educate them about the king of king fu.

(For some of us of a certain generation) our concept of fame seems to be linked to the days when everyone watched the same 2 or 3 TV stations because we had no other choice. Fame lasted a long, long, time back then - and it gave us this false impression that it would somehow last forever. But give people never-ending choice with streaming options and 'fame' actually has an incredibly short life-span. 

In 50 years from now I doubt most people will even be aware of the Beatles, beyond some die-hard music fans. Elvis is another good example. Sure, he was the king of rock n' roll - but not anymore... mostly because the general public don't really listen to rock n' roll these days - another seemingly indestructible icon who's slowly disappearing from public consciousness.

Bruce's star has been on a downward slope for years now - so maybe selling up now isn't such a bad idea if they were just purchased for investments (or you straight up hate the guy now, which is your choice - and we can all respect and understand where you're coming from)

Edited by CharlieParker
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